Evening, I've met a few people over the past year who believe that every thing they read in the bible actually occurred. They could be deemed 'fundamentalists'.
They believe that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth, and the earth is about 6000 years old, and Jonah was a real person who spent some time in a big fish, and there was a flood that covered the earth and all animals ( except for the dinosaurs of course ) were placed in an ark and the rainbow appeared as a sign that the flood would not occur again.
The common point here is that fundamentalists literally believe that everything in the bible is a record of actual events.
Many of the content of the bible is simply man's way of describing man's understanding of how God went about some of the wonderful things such as creation.
Sure God inspired people to write, but its not been some sort of dictation exercise, whereby a secretary is writing down what God is saying, and given that man is imperfect, its hard to understand why some people believe the bible is 100% perfect.
Some of the stories are lessons for us, for which we can learn much from, but we shouldn't assume the characters in the story actually existed.
There are books of the bible which have been composed of events that have been orally handed down from generation to generation until someone decided to put them into writing. An example would be the story of Abraham, which is thought to have been orally handed down for a period of about 900 years until it was written. Imagine playing a game of Chinese Whispers for 900 years. What you end up with is something which is similar to the original message, but not quite 100% percent.
The point I am making is that not everything in the bible should be taken literally, and defininetely its not worth arguing about the finer points of some of the content of the bible. Some churches have even split because of disagreements about content which can't be verified as being 100% accurate.
I find that the average person at church doesn't care much to study the bible in terms of how it was written, or why, or when, or how. And I've not heard many preachers talk about it either. In my experiences I would even say that some of the ministers I have come across discourage discussion on topics as I have mentioned. They see it as a threat, rather than an opportunity to understand God and the bible.
I can see difficult times for the church ahead if fundamentalists continue to dominate church, as they are simply excluding people from the church who are 'thinkers'. And as time passes, more and more advancements in the scientific field are proving that not everything in the bible should be taken literally.
This is no way saying there is not God, or that Jesus didn't die on the cross for our sins, its just a wake up call for the non 'thinkers', who do their best to keep the IQ down in the pews.
Finally, a little story about Galileo, a 'thinker', who realised that the earth wasn't the centre of the universe and also realised that the verses in the bible that mentioned the opposite, are not to be taken literally. They were merely mans understanding of the universe at the time that particular content was written ...... ( with help from the wikipedia )
Heliocentrism is the theory that the sun is at the center of the Solar System.
Galileo defended heliocentrism, and claimed it was not contrary to those Scripture passages. He took Augustine's position on Scripture: not to take every passage literally, particularly when the scripture in question is a book of poetry and songs, not a book of instructions or history. The writers of the Scripture wrote from the perspective of the terrestrial world, and from that vantage point the sun does rise and set. In fact, it is the earth's rotation which gives the impression of the sun in motion across the sky.
By 1616 the attacks on Galileo had reached a head, and he went to Rome to try to persuade the Church authorities not to ban his ideas.
Galileo was ordered to stand trial on suspicion of heresy in 1633.
The formal condemnation of Galileo was that "The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and formally heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures", and the converse as to the Sun's not revolving around the Earth."
He was ordered imprisoned; the sentence was later commuted to house arrest.
His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.
Friday, June 20, 2008
Thursday, June 19, 2008
Jesus the bearded woman
Many thanks to Paul Coughlin, author of 'No more Christian Nice Guy', whose book assisted myself to realise why women like church and men don't. Much of the following is from his book, and it might appear a little disjointed, the reason being I have just selected a few paragraphs from various chapters.
How come when we ask, What Would Jesus Do ? we almost always some form of quiet response, when he often spoke and behaved in undeniably rugged ways ?
Jesus, the dissident, brought the world both – the kind of conflict and division needed to shake things up for our own good.
Niceness makes people agreeable, not good. Nice people don't get crucified.
We need to see and emulate all of Jesus, gentle and rugged and all points in between.
Phillip Yancy wrote “In my prior image, Jesus’ personality matched that of a Star Trek Vulcan : he remained calm, cool, and collected as he strode like a robot among excitable human beings on spaceship earth. That is not what I later found portrayed in the Gospels … Indeed, he seemed more emotional and spontaneous than the average person, not less. More passionate, not less.
If we compare these actions of Jesus to the behaviour of the average guy in most churches today, and if we were honest – we’d say that Christ is not a Christian. We wouldn’t pray to him, we’d issue prayer requests for him.
Here’s our popular nice guy misconception : Jesus didn’t drink, swear, get angry, use sarcasm, confront, avoid questions, grow impatient, or complain. Conversely, the record shows that he did all of the above, and the gospel includes no apology, confession, or repentance for any of them.
The church encourages Christian men to be passive , and this leads to broken relationships and opportunities. Christians are taught that it’s sinful to tell others what one really thinks and feels. This is damaging because people are naturally expressive.
Why does contemporary Christianity encourage mild living when Jesus showed more passion than anyone else around him ?
Jesus was illegally slapped by an official at his so-called trial, and instead of literally turning his other cheek to be slapped again, he stood up for himself and insisted this this abuse, this bully, follow legal protocol. He didn’t follow protocol with the high priest; as recorded in John 18, when questioned about his teaching, Jesus said everything he taught was delivered publicly, that nothing was said in secret. “Why, then do you question me” he asked. To his attacker, Jesus responded, “If I have said anything wrong, tell everyone here what it was. But if I am right in what I have said, why do you hit me?” Jesus did not follow our Church’s current teaching about being a doormat and laying down personal rights, he assertively retained them and laid them down when he chose, not when anyone else required it. Jesus admonishment to ‘Turn the other check” does not mean to accept abuse; its means to not return evil for evil. Protecting yourself verbally or physically is simply that, self-protection.
The late youth minister Mike Yaconelli once told about meeting Mother Teresa. “She’s tough as nails. She’s uncompromising and she irritates people. She’s willfull and domineering. She gets angry. She’s not nice, but no one would say she isn’t good.”
Christian men in general fear that they won’t behave like “Christians should” if they free themselves from expectations I’ve tried to show are unbiblically unfounded. They fear what their religious leaders will say, what the crowd might think, what their family and friends may do. These are the same exact groups that surrounded Jesus in the Gospels ; none always understood or accepted him either, yet he let none stop him.
“In this world you will have troubles. But take heart ! I have overcome the world” ( John 16:33 )
If earthly trouble is inevitable, living small is not the answer; that just means the Nice Guy pointlessly lives small and has troubles all the same.
“God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love, and of self discipline ( 2 Timothy 1:7 )
Contrary to what you’ve been told by some scripture twisters, you are not a slave to other people. Rather you are an agent of God’s redemptive power that serves other people as you choose. Sometimes this means telling people no without giving them a long explanation or having a concrete reason that they need to hear.
Your thoughts and feelings should be valued ; don’t justify them to people who think you shouldn’t have thoughts and feelings.
Thank you God for Paul
How come when we ask, What Would Jesus Do ? we almost always some form of quiet response, when he often spoke and behaved in undeniably rugged ways ?
Jesus, the dissident, brought the world both – the kind of conflict and division needed to shake things up for our own good.
Niceness makes people agreeable, not good. Nice people don't get crucified.
We need to see and emulate all of Jesus, gentle and rugged and all points in between.
Phillip Yancy wrote “In my prior image, Jesus’ personality matched that of a Star Trek Vulcan : he remained calm, cool, and collected as he strode like a robot among excitable human beings on spaceship earth. That is not what I later found portrayed in the Gospels … Indeed, he seemed more emotional and spontaneous than the average person, not less. More passionate, not less.
If we compare these actions of Jesus to the behaviour of the average guy in most churches today, and if we were honest – we’d say that Christ is not a Christian. We wouldn’t pray to him, we’d issue prayer requests for him.
Here’s our popular nice guy misconception : Jesus didn’t drink, swear, get angry, use sarcasm, confront, avoid questions, grow impatient, or complain. Conversely, the record shows that he did all of the above, and the gospel includes no apology, confession, or repentance for any of them.
The church encourages Christian men to be passive , and this leads to broken relationships and opportunities. Christians are taught that it’s sinful to tell others what one really thinks and feels. This is damaging because people are naturally expressive.
Why does contemporary Christianity encourage mild living when Jesus showed more passion than anyone else around him ?
Jesus was illegally slapped by an official at his so-called trial, and instead of literally turning his other cheek to be slapped again, he stood up for himself and insisted this this abuse, this bully, follow legal protocol. He didn’t follow protocol with the high priest; as recorded in John 18, when questioned about his teaching, Jesus said everything he taught was delivered publicly, that nothing was said in secret. “Why, then do you question me” he asked. To his attacker, Jesus responded, “If I have said anything wrong, tell everyone here what it was. But if I am right in what I have said, why do you hit me?” Jesus did not follow our Church’s current teaching about being a doormat and laying down personal rights, he assertively retained them and laid them down when he chose, not when anyone else required it. Jesus admonishment to ‘Turn the other check” does not mean to accept abuse; its means to not return evil for evil. Protecting yourself verbally or physically is simply that, self-protection.
The late youth minister Mike Yaconelli once told about meeting Mother Teresa. “She’s tough as nails. She’s uncompromising and she irritates people. She’s willfull and domineering. She gets angry. She’s not nice, but no one would say she isn’t good.”
Christian men in general fear that they won’t behave like “Christians should” if they free themselves from expectations I’ve tried to show are unbiblically unfounded. They fear what their religious leaders will say, what the crowd might think, what their family and friends may do. These are the same exact groups that surrounded Jesus in the Gospels ; none always understood or accepted him either, yet he let none stop him.
“In this world you will have troubles. But take heart ! I have overcome the world” ( John 16:33 )
If earthly trouble is inevitable, living small is not the answer; that just means the Nice Guy pointlessly lives small and has troubles all the same.
“God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love, and of self discipline ( 2 Timothy 1:7 )
Contrary to what you’ve been told by some scripture twisters, you are not a slave to other people. Rather you are an agent of God’s redemptive power that serves other people as you choose. Sometimes this means telling people no without giving them a long explanation or having a concrete reason that they need to hear.
Your thoughts and feelings should be valued ; don’t justify them to people who think you shouldn’t have thoughts and feelings.
Thank you God for Paul
Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Are you a member
Hi, some people hate football, and some people love football. I love it and I'm a loyal supporter of the Port Adelaide Football Club in the Australian Football League. We are not performing that well this year, but I will still support them as much as I can, and one day we will again be the premier team.
When I meet people for the first time, I usually ask them whom they support in the AFL, as this goes a long way in determining their character ! Only joking, but really why would you want to support Collingwood ?
Many people do like AFL, and when we get talking about football I ask them when they last went to the footy, and I'm surprised by the huge number of people who say they support a team, but they don't actually go along to the game.
I find that many Christians are like football supporters... they claim to belong to a church, but they don't appear that often at church.
I was chatting to a friend a few months back and asked them which church they are attending, and they indicated that they attended my church !
Came as a bit of a surprise as I'm usually at church about 80% of the time and I could only remember 1 occassion in the last few months I had seen them there.
I was a little embarassed to have asked them the question in the first place. ( just a little bit ! )
Whether someone comes along to church is really up to them, and its probably not my place to judge, but I can see some parallels between football supporters and church attenders.
With football there are people who claim they support a club, but when you analyse their behaviour, they ...
When I meet people for the first time, I usually ask them whom they support in the AFL, as this goes a long way in determining their character ! Only joking, but really why would you want to support Collingwood ?
Many people do like AFL, and when we get talking about football I ask them when they last went to the footy, and I'm surprised by the huge number of people who say they support a team, but they don't actually go along to the game.
I find that many Christians are like football supporters... they claim to belong to a church, but they don't appear that often at church.
I was chatting to a friend a few months back and asked them which church they are attending, and they indicated that they attended my church !
Came as a bit of a surprise as I'm usually at church about 80% of the time and I could only remember 1 occassion in the last few months I had seen them there.
I was a little embarassed to have asked them the question in the first place. ( just a little bit ! )
Whether someone comes along to church is really up to them, and its probably not my place to judge, but I can see some parallels between football supporters and church attenders.
With football there are people who claim they support a club, but when you analyse their behaviour, they ...
- don't go to the games
- don't support the club financially
- don't know how the team is doing
- don't associate and relate to other supporters
I have problems believing them when they claim they support the club. The evidence just doesn't stack up.
In a similar manner, there are people who claim they are Christians, but they
- don't show up to church
- don't give to God via service, and via finances ( whether its given to 'their' church or directly to God's work through other avenues )
- don't know what is going on at church
- don't attempt to connect to other people at 'their' church
- don't contribute to the mission of their church
Given the evidence, I can't see how they can claim they belong to a particular church, or claim to be Christians.
At my church we have a number of people who are not Christians, and these people are showing by their giving of the time and resources and participation in the church, they are more committed to the church as compared to many of the 'Christians'.
Its the opposite of how it should be !
Thanks for listening
James 2:14
What good does it do, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith but does not have any works? This kind of faith cannot save him, can it?
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